Topaz 2 Water System

[Auscgu]

The Topaz 2 Water System

I would like to fit a tank drain in each tank the the hoses are completely hidden by the tank protection plate and are well about the tank base once visible
Has anyone fitted a tank drain to each tank?
Has anyone had to repair the tanks and have pictures or ideas on tanks drains?

Water Pumps
I have taken a picture of the Topaz 2 water pumps and would like to confirm what all the suction lines do

Left Pump is the rear tank pump feeding
Hot Water system
Kitchen Hot Water
Shower Hot Water
Tempering Valve
Shower Cold Water

Right Pump
Kitchen Cold Water

The 3rd line down the chassis with black filter whats the purpose of the line?
The Blue unit after the Left Tank is this a check valve? To stop back flow of hot water?
The pressure relief valve what pressure does this relief?

I would like to fit a Town Water system and a alternate tank feed system
Hence asking the questions to understand what the current system does

What problems will you see with the current system with town water pressure introduced after the pumps
Check valves will need to be installed and solenoid valves for alternate tank feeds
You can then select which tank to feed the water to either service
Town water will allow longer term water supply without having to play with the tanks

[Auscgu]

You can buy a pressure Mains Water Inlet from Shurflo with a 50 psi regulator built in
Adaptors are avaliable to convert from NPT to BSP
Looks like a good option but only avaliable in white or chrome
Might have to go chrome for bling, white will look average on the van
Details Below

SHURFLO Mains Press Regulator, water inlet, White, USA f-NPT-3/4, has a built in regulator helps protect water system from high pressure damage.
Features
The Filter screen prevents dirt and foreign substance buildup
Built in check/non-return value, prevents water loss when pump is on
The water enters the inlet via a 3/4'' NPT USA female thread**. (A screw on protection cover is also included).
The fitting requires a hole in the wall of about 85mm diameter, and extends back around 80mm with a male 1/2 BSP thread for connecting RV pipework
Specifications
Pressure is reduced to a nominal 50 PSI.
Outside diameter approx 100mm, with four external fitted screws to attach to outside wall.
Inlet thread is a Non-standard Australian Thread - Female USA NPT-3/4
Shipping Weight: 200 grams.

[Harry Lissimore]

I would be interested in what you find out and how you install mains pressure.  Having to fill the tanks often is not much of a drama but mains pressure would also be of benefit.  However, I have no idea where/how to access the pumps are on my  2015 Topaz.  I found one on the floor behind where the gas heater blower comes out but the pump is almost unable to be accessed and the other I have no idea where it is.  I came to the conclusion that if I wanted to access the pumps I would have to drill out rivets and remove a panel, but I have no idea which one/s.

[frank]

Hi Auscgu & Harry,
The blue item with six screws in the top is a pressure regulator.
Pump from memory is 42 psi, the regular takes it down to 32 psi, this is to potect the hot water tank.
The pumps are located in the rear side compartment, two screws to remove a panel. Unless the later model has been modified to accomidate your heater.

[Auscgu]

Harry you need to find screws in your van and remove them LOL
I have remove most of my access panels and even some riveted panels in order to see how my van works
That is just how I am wired and my trade and design background

The pumps are located in the right rear compartment where the toilet is kept
Your later series 2 has some mods regarding the toilet position but fundamentally the same
They moved the water heater closer to the wardrobe as there is spare space there
This allowed toilet access
I believe the pump are the same and the same place but someone will confirm that

open the compartment and remove the toilet
Look at the plate behind and at the top there are two screws to be removed
Work the bottom of the panel forward clear of the flat rivets and gas pipe
The panel will come free then keep the top rear in the van and rotate the front bottom clear

Note you need to put it back in the same order and refit the screws
I find the rear screw easier to fit first as you can see the threaded hole
The front screw is a feel the screw hole to locate and screw home
The screw can cross thread so if it enters and is tight back it out and adjust thread angle
Once the screw enters and screw easily the all good just hand firm
the screws are small so don't over torque

The access panel Photo
You will then see the pumps like the picture

There are three filters
One before each pump suction clear

The W-System photo shows the rear pump with the filter horizontal and the lid at the rear
Undo the lid (right hand thread) and clean the filter
The front pump has the filter tucked behind the pressure relief valve (same as the rear pump)
The other filter is the Black filter housing (undo the nut and the housing separates and put your finger in to drag the filter out)
Clean them and reassemble

Town water can be added but you need to be aware of the system pressures
The truma has a design pressure that you need to limit the town water pressure too
I can't find the number in the truma manuals just yet
I believe that the 50 psi that the Surflow system has is right but hoping someone in the know will confirm

Hope this helps Harry

[Auscgu]

Thanks frank

I have found the pump specs
The pumps are Shurflo 4009
Specs below found on the Caravan World Web Site
Very helpful for components and specs

This SHURflo 4009 fresh water pump is the most common pump used in recreation vehicles made is Australia. It features an internal by-pass, assuring long life and top performance in all plumbing systems. The Revolution Pump is built for high flow demand, low noise and no rapid cycling. This pump is super quiet, thermally protected and can run dry without damage. Mounts in any position.
This pump is a direct replacement for the Shurflo 2088 which has now been superseded.
To ensure your Shurflo Pump has valid warranty, they must be installed with a filter.
NOTE: These pumps have some water present as they have been fully tested by the manufacturer before being sent to Australia. The best connections for the 1/2 inch thread on these are the Shurflo fittings shown as related parts.
Features
Ideal replacement for Series 2088 pumps
C-Tick approved
4 Chamber Diaphragm
Dry Prime up to 1.8m Vertical
Internal By-Pass will prevent rapid cycling (when used at very low rates, eg. thru water filters, they will rapidly cycle unless an accumulator is used, as will most 12v pumps.)
An accumulator is NOT required with this pump
Specifications
12 Volt
Flow Rate: 11 litres per minute
Auto-Switching: Yes
Maximum Amps: 5.2
Input/Output Connections: 1/2inch bsp male thread
Pressure Cut Off: 45psi (3.1bar)
Internal Bypass: Yes
Dry Prime Height: 1.8m
Dimensions: 205mm(l) x 125mm(h) x 111mm(w)
Shipping Weight: 1.83 Kgs.
Shipping Dimensions: 11 cm x 13 cm x 21 cm.

You can see the pressure cutoff spec is 45 psi

I found the Truma heater spec and 400 kpa is the magic number

Direct quote from Boiler Australia Truma install manual
Search (Truma/boiler_installation_operation_aus.pdf)
Search engine shows (Boiler (Australia)

If connecting to a central water supply (rural or city connection)
or when using more powerful pumps, a pressure reducer
must be used which prevents pressures of greater than
400 kPa occurring in the Boiler.

Note 400 kPa is 58 psi so the pump produces less pressure than the maxi allowed
The Pressure limiting valve is a safety device see below

Truma Pressure Reducing Valve
Specs below found on the Caravan World Web Site

TRUMA, Pressure reducer, 12mm push-in connectors. These limit water pressure flowing thru the valve. It has 12mm female push-in connectors.
Features
Used to limit mains pressure and pump pressure to a level that the TRUMA HWS can handle. The TRUMA HWS can handle a maximum of 280kPa (40psi)
Specifications
Limits pressure to 220kPa (32psi)
Input can not exceed 900kPa
Shipping Weight: 110 grams.

This is the Truma reducing valve for the hot water service

I have just answered one of my own questions
The shurflo Town water will limit the whole system to 50 psi at the connection (350 kPa)
Then install the Truma Prussure reducing valve to ensure the town water matches the Truma Specs

[Auscgu]

I was reading a Tvan thread about pumps and found the answer to the 3rd suction line

Water Pumps
I have taken a picture of the Topaz 2 water pumps and have confirmed what all the suction lines do

Left Pump is the rear tank pump feeding  SHURflo 4009 fresh water pump Pressure Cut Off: 45psi (3.1bar)
Hot Water system
Kitchen Hot Water
Shower Hot Water
Tempering Valve
Shower Cold Water

Right Pump                    SHURflo 4009 fresh water pump Pressure Cut Off: 45psi (3.1bar)
Kitchen Cold Water

The 3rd line down the chassis with black filter whats the purpose of the line?   Hand Pump in Shower Cabinet
The Blue unit after the Left Tank is this a check valve? To stop back flow of hot water?   Truma Pressure Reducing Regulator 220 kPa / 32 psi
The pressure relief valve what pressure does this relief?   Safety Drain / Pressure Relief Valve - 3.5 Bar - Suit Truma™ Hot Water System 3.5 Bar = 350 kPa / 50 psi

[frank]

Auscgu,
Do you have a reason for adding town water?
We lived in our van for 3 mths & found if we stayed in a caravan park with water we hardly used our tank water.
Washing up dishes was the biggest use.
Allways filled the tanks on arrival & departure.
What I would like is a small tank, say 20 lt, with easy access to fill with filtered water that we buy from supermarkets just for drinking.
Our tank water, even after removing tanks, cleaning, still tastes different, & the water from parks also tasted different.

[Auscgu]

Frank we intend to go around Australia and work as a designer so will longer term stay to complete a contract
We can travel while in the area
If the stay where short time I would not bother with the town water system
Town water means you will always have a supply, filling tanks for 6 months not much fun.

I use a water filter to fill the tanks and find that the water so much better
Best Water Filter is reversible for self cleaning and easy to plumb with snap-on fittings

I also have a tank in the 4wd that we use for filtered drinking water and fill with bottle water on longer trips to ensure the drinking water quality
The tank has a pump and plumber to the draw system with a bulk head fitting and screw on cap
I have a trigger shower head and use that to fill bottles
We use a 4 litre bottle which we fill daily and fill kettles water bottles from
Saves walking into the van to get water

The 4wd is setup for independent camping
The water in the 4wd ensures you have water where ever you go
Easy to get drinking water for the van if the tanks are contaminated

[Harry Lissimore]

Hi again Auscgu,

Having a think about it, the porta potty does not have a panel behind it as you can access it from inside the cabin as well as from the outside.  The hot water system is located to the left (rear) of the porta potty so it appears that the pumps are behind the hot water system.  I don't know how to get to them but I will look in depth when the Topaz is out of the carport.

[frank]

Auscgu,
I filter the water with a Best filter, Still taste tainted after being in the tanks.
Also have water in the car.
Just saying it would be easier if the TT had a small drinking water tank.
Might look at installing a stainless steel one.

[Auscgu]

Harry when you get some answers for the later series 2 water system
Post some pics and description on the thread, I am sure other will appreciate it
May not hurt to give tracks a ring and discuss the servicing of the pump filter as it needs to done soon or later
Better to sort those issues at home then while your out and about

[Auscgu]

Frank do you have rain water in your area as a water supply?
Do you drain the tanks and refill before a trip?
I find leaving the tanks filled and the draining and refilling with filtered water works
We have under ground water here in the northern suburbs of perth
We filter our house water as well the remove the chlorine taste
Water is a personal thing and if you have tried to sort the tanks and filter then maybe a separate drinking water tank might be a good option
Just finding a suitable location and having a tank made
May be in the through boot at the front

[Harry Lissimore]

Auscgu - I have sent Lloyd an email re the Topaz II water pump access and hopefully he may reply tomorrow.

Auscgu and Frank - I fill my tanks with chlorinated tap water because the chlorine may stop things growing in the tanks.  I would rather use filtered dechlorinated water but I do worry about contamination.  The taste of the water in my tanks is pretty good.  WHen the Topaz was new, the water had a plastic taste when just turned on but if I left the water running for about 10 seconds, the plastic taste disappeared and the water would be quite nice.  Now the water has no plastic taste at all.  I'm quite happy with it.

I do leave the tanks full of dechlorinated water when stored and replace the water just before the next trip, or if there are no trips in sight I change the water every month.  I drain the tanks by pumping the water through the taps.  A drain would be a great idea.

Harry

[frank]

Auscgu,
I live in Sorrento, so same water as you.
Yes, keep the tanks full & drain & refill before trips.
The water is OK to drink, just has the tainted taste when drinking coffee or tee.
My TT is six years old, so the age of the tanks may be the reason.
Even while travelling, using water daily & refilling with filtered water still has the tainted taste.
We have a 10 litre water cooler that has a push button tap, keep it behind the sink that we use for our drinking water. Store it in the sink while travelling.