Author Topic: Tvan bearings  (Read 935 times)

Offline PeterCo

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Tvan bearings
« on: May 06, 2019, 05:43:40 PM »
Anyone venture an opinion as to why the recommended change interval for the wheel bearings is 10,000km when they seem to last a lot longer on the tow vehicle?
Peter
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Offline Gumb

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2019, 06:20:27 PM »
I guess it's because a Tvan by nature spends a lot more time on corrugations (percentage wise) than as tug, which spends most of it's life on bitumen. They'd have to have a recommendation which assumed most of the 10k would be on harsh roads, even though they may not be required at 10k. Got to advertise the worst case scenario in other words.
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Offline Pete930

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2019, 09:24:23 PM »
Definitely check and service the bearings dependant on the trip moreso that’s kms. For example a caravan that never sees the dirt at all is good for at least 10,000kms between services.

 I usually recommend to folk to service according to the trip they will undertake especially with an off road camper.

What kills bearings and brakes is dust and water crossings.

If you do a trip that does not include a lot of that then the 10k interval for a service is fine.

We just did a trip testing the new T4 for Track and I had our Tvan with us. Although I had replaced bearings, brake backing plates and drums before we left I still after a shorter mileage removed the drums to remove the dust that had accumulated in the drums. We will be heading to Finke in June or July after which I will do a full service including the bearings.

Replacing them.......well I see no point unless they show signs of wear, you have deep pockets or are planning a trip such as doing the lap.

Then you are only replacing to provide peace of mind really.

I replaced our bearings on the Tvan which had done 30,000 kms so they do last. Look for the signs of minor pitting in the bearing cones first and generally any mark that you can feel with a finger nail, then check the rollers for wear from there.

For those that want a number as such 20,000 kms would be a starting point in my view taking the above into consideration.

Pete
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 11:15:03 AM by Pete930 »

Offline Graham Norfolk

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2019, 06:35:21 AM »
Replace my wheel bearings recently after about 100,000 kms, I serviced them once every year and the bearings that I replaced looked as good as new but how long do you keep repacking them? I don't have deep pockets Pete LOL but for the cost of them and peace of mind I think a 100,000 ks is a fair life for them. I use good marine seals on them as recommended by Phil G. I would repack them after a trip that included water crossings
Cheers
Graham

Offline peter_mcc

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2019, 12:18:15 PM »
I think it's to play it safe - lots of Tvan's go out for a bit then sit around for a long time. If they have water/moisture in them then the bearings will go rusty while sitting around and fail on the next trip. Given most Tvan's go to out of the way places that can become a big problem.

Offline CJ

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2019, 08:59:26 PM »
Insighful replies but the original question still remain unanswered.
The tug bearings last a lifetime on the same roads as the vans and much more, but the van bearings need to be services 10 times more oftern at least.  Why is that?  Why can’t a van’s wheels not hav ethe same sealed and seeomingly trouble free bearings as that of the tug?
CJ
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Offline William_Foster

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2019, 09:25:05 PM »
I am sorry to say I don't have the answer; but I was speaking with Track Trailer recently when ordering replacement bearings for mine and the customer service person explained the reason to me.  I would love to be able to recite what they told me but unfortunately I forgot the detail, I'd suggest giving the spare parts team a call and having a chat.
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Offline Pete930

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2019, 10:27:36 AM »
CJ I think the answer has been clearly stated in the above posts by quite a few people.

If bearings exposed to water and dust, service / replace more often.

If going on a long extended trip and don’t wish to do roadside repairs, replace before you go.

If you can feel any wear with a fingernail across the cone surface, replace the bearings.

Graham Norfolk has advised that he got 100,000 kms out of his bearings with regular maintenance.

As far as to have a sealed bearing in the drums, great idea but manufacturers most likely don’t wish to spend time and money to redesign something that will last longer than the current setup they have designed and potentially decrease their income.

Pete
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 12:18:54 PM by Pete930 »

Offline peter_mcc

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2019, 08:54:07 AM »
Why can’t a van’s wheels not hav ethe same sealed and seeomingly trouble free bearings as that of the tug?

I suspect because the market isn't there for it. Boat trailers would still want repackable bearings because they get immersed in salt water all the time. Small box trailers wouldn't want to wear any extra cost. There are lots of different suppliers of hubs and with the number of different combinations they sell it just isn't worth the engineering/tooling costs.

Offline Cruiser 105Tvan

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2019, 10:48:16 PM »
I believe that Tvans have the same sort of wheel/hub bearings that the 100 Series LandCruiser does.
There's not much goes wrong with a Cruiser bearing. (unless incorrectly installed, which can cause a mountain of problems on any vehicle.)
Robert.
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Offline Pete and Lez

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2019, 12:17:00 PM »
I believe that Tvans have the same sort of wheel/hub bearings that the 100 Series LandCruiser does.
There's not much goes wrong with a Cruiser bearing. (unless incorrectly installed, which can cause a mountain of problems on any vehicle.)

Not sure what you mean by "same sort of wheel/hub bearings that the 100 series landcruiser does" But there is no comparison size wise, Landcruiser bearings are much larger.

I think with most machinery the longer it sits idle the more likely it is to have problems.
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Offline Cruiser 105Tvan

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2019, 09:56:00 PM »
My meaning, was a cage of rollers sitting in an angled cup packed with grease.
Same as Cruiser, in the Tvan and Topaz, mounted in pairs for each wheel.
Robert.
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HDJ 105r with a 1HDFT, in the works.

Offline Jim and Lyn

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2019, 08:22:42 PM »
Gday Peter,
I can't answer the original question of why the replacement schedule is so short but I can add a similar story to Graham's. I've changed the bearings once on our 2005 tvan but I repack before every big trip. I've replaced the seals three times I think and when I did replace the bearings it was more out of the age than any wear factor of the bearings but the seals were getting a tad weepy and we'd done a bit of water. I'm now using marine bearings that have lasted really well. Think I just went to a bearing place with an old seal and asked for a replacement and that was what they suggested. Quality bearings and seals and I can't see why they won't last like a cars!
Cheers
Jim
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Offline Harry Lissimore

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2019, 01:39:12 PM »
I'm a little confused here with bearing seals.  My Tvan years ago had marine seals when I repacked/changed the bearings.  The local trailer parts shop told me that there should never have been marine seals on it.  Marine seals are made to slowly weep grease to the outside when used in conjunction with bearing buddies.

Since then, I have asked another trailer maintenance place in Broome,  and they say they would only replace the seals with the regular sort, not marine seals. 

I've asked TrackTrailer, and they say the same - only use the standard seals.

One trailer place said that marine seals shouldn't be used if you have drum brakes, as grease may end up on the drum and brake shoes.

So the last 6 times on average that I have repacked/changed the bearings in my Tvan and now Topaz, I only use the standard seals that trailer places and TrackTrailer advise me to use.

So I suppose I would like to know:

1) If marine seals can be used

2)  If you can use marine seals, then are they superior to the standard ones

3) If they are better, then why do Trailer places and Track advise to use the standard seals.

Cheers

Harry
Formerly 2002 TVAN, now a 2015 Topaz Savannah and 2014 Isuzu MU-X LST

Offline Pete930

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2019, 03:35:23 PM »
Hey Harry, hope your battery issues are now resolved.

Firstly just to say I do servicing on Caravans every day of the week, have owned our Tvan from new in 2014 and was involved with the recent T4 testing out in the bush.

I too would only use the “original” seals for the Tvan or Topaz too.

A marine seal is designed to work when the pressure of the water once immersed pushes the seal into its metal seat to provide a sealing pressure of sorts.
If you don’t have this pressure applied from time to time then yes a good chance that the seal will leak a little grease all over your brake linings and potentially stuff them up.
They are normally fitted to say nine inch disc setups for boats and not drum brakes.
If you lose a bit of grease out the back of the disc it needs to travel a bit to contaminate the disc, with a drum brake it does not have to go too far to get on the linings.

As far as the use of bearing buddies personally I have never seen anyone that uses them the way they should be used ie a quick few pumps before you head out and all should be fine.......hmmm a few pumps becomes a dozen, then grease IS pumped out the back of the seal and into the drum area, the spring mechanism in the dust cap jams up as well so not what I would call a reliable system, yet folk still swear by them, good marketing I guess.

For those reasons I am certainly not a fan of bearing buddies.

For marine applications I recommend a quality grease and regular servicing during the ski / fishing season. As an example “normal” wheel bearing grease you will pay say $50 for 2.5kg tub, the good marine grease is around $24 for 250gram tub.

 Replace the seal each and every time when you do the bearings, yes bush fixes are fine when you need to but the Tvan seals being a John Guest 28600 seal retailing for say $3.60 each or a KOK equivalent seal for $1.60 each do you really need to reuse them.

Also rubber does perish with age and does wear down as well, so I’m not sure why reusing them to save $7.20 or $3.20 would not be high on my list.

So Harry stick to your original style of seal on the Topaz (they are a bit more than listed above been a while since I’ve done a Topaz, 33940 seal seems to ring a bell maybe, around $12 each ??)

Cheers Pete
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 03:40:43 PM by Pete930 »