Author Topic: Tvan bearings  (Read 1556 times)

Offline Harry Lissimore

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2019, 08:26:37 AM »
Thanks for that pete.

Testing the T4 would have been a real buzz with Ron Moon and all.  I'm jealous.  I can't wait to see the T4 at the upcoming Caravan show in Brisbane early June.

As for the battery issues, I haven't found the answer yet, although I now only charge the batteries for a few hours once a month when home, and I never plug the anderson plug in to charge the batteries from the car unless I have been camping unpowered and the batteries are down.  Usually the rooftop solar is sufficient to keep the batteries fully charged during the day when travelling.  Having done this since the batteries were new last August seems to be a good thing.  I tested the batteries last week by running them down to 65% charge, the resting voltage was about 12.4 and 12.2 under load from the ARB fridge so all is good so far.  The last batteries only lasted 12 months and a similar test would have taken the voltage under load to 10 or lower.

Thanks for your advice on the seals - I will continue to use the regular seals that Track provide.

Any ideas on what is the best grease to use. At the moment I'm using Castrol HTB.

Cheers

Harry
Formerly 2002 TVAN, now a 2015 Topaz Savannah and 2014 Isuzu MU-X LST

Offline Pete930

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2019, 09:02:39 AM »
Harry glad to hear the battery issue is holding at the moment.

I havnt gone back to that post for a while but check in with peter mcc I think it is he seems to be all over 12v stuff from what I have seen.

As far as grease goes some folk will say use this one or that one “because it hangs on better”.

Some of the grease that I see that comes from new in vans etc is so damn thick I wonder how it keeps things lubricated, I think they use this as usually the bearing roller is covered but there is nothing at all inside the drum itself.

Think of it this way, as the grease warms up it should have the ability to “flow” a little, not to say it turns to water etc but be able to move around, by this ability it can “flow” towards the bearings to keep the lube up to them. This “flow” or more so a change in its viscosity should be present to protect the bearings

I do see a lot of grease that resembles the consistency of candle wax on a regular basis.

Some purists will bang on about how much extra moisture protection it will provide etc etc etc but as we have covered in this post and previous posts if regular servicing and dependant on the type of travel you do then a “standard” grease will suffice.

My go to grease is just Castrol HTB grease. It has a high enough temp rating and should you exceed the temp rating you will have more to worry about than a bit of grease coming out past the seals.

So in my meagre view, use standard seals, normal HTB bearing grease, service every 10,000kms or after each trip if extremely dusty and water crossings are involved, replace bearings when signs of wear on that you can feel with a finger nail, before a massive long distance journey (more so for peace of mind) or I would put a figure of 30,000 kms out there, not for any other reason than the bearings have done some work, are not that expensive in the big scheme of things and at that mileage have served you well, as Graham stated he swapped his out at 100,000kms and trust me I have worked on his Tvan and it has done some serious serious work and mileage.

Cheers Pete

Ps yes meeting Ron and Viv Moon was a treat as was travelling with them, we have stayed in touch and they came to stay with us in Burra on their way out to the west.

The T4 Trip was an adventure, Mid 40’s each and every day, not much under 30 degrees at night, so not really fun but yes an adventure. The T4 itself is an amazing unit, tows just like a Tvan maybe you can feel a touch more weight abut really really nice and stable to tow.
 We did come across some issues that will need addressing but I guess that since Track are probably one of the only manufacturers that do field testing the way we did it, people that but one will know it has sorted before they get one.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:07:40 AM by Pete930 »

Offline Harry Lissimore

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2019, 10:13:40 AM »
Thanks for all that Pete.  Perhaps you can help me with another issue.

When replacing the Topaz bearings, I notice that the large washer between the castle nut and the outer bearing is marked on both sides from the outer bearing spinning.

Is this normal?  How do you limit this happening or does it not matter?  I have heard that you can make a small dent with a punch on the axle where the bearing sits to restrict the bearing spinning but I was hoping not to go down that path.  The bearings have been serviced/replaced 7 times in the past, and I have done the last 2 services and the scoring on the washer seems to have gotten a lot more pronounced in the last two times compared to all the earlier services.

How often should this washer be replaced if it's worn?

Thanks Pete.

Harry
Formerly 2002 TVAN, now a 2015 Topaz Savannah and 2014 Isuzu MU-X LST

Offline Pete930

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2019, 12:41:04 PM »
Hey Harry, it’s common to see some marks on the bearing outside washer but in the main it’s nothing to really worry about.
If you are seeing small metal particles accumulating in or around the outer bearing then there may be an issue of sorts, probably bearing adjustment not tight enough.

What folk do is adjust the bearing, fit the spilt pin, put the dust cap back on an job done, however this can lead to the bearing being out of adjustment within a few kms and maybe why you are seeing increased wear in the bearing “thrust” washer.

You need to reseat the bearing back into its cone by expelling all of the unwanted grease from within the bearing.

So the way I suggest to adjust the bearing so as not to have the issue is as follows.

Tighten up the bearing nut till firm then go a little bit more, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 turn max.
Then spin the brake drum backwards and watch the excess grease come from within the outer bearing, wipe off as required.
Spin in opposite direction and do the same thing, keep spinning till the excess grease stops coming out of the bearing.

This should happen within a minute or so, then back off the bearing adjustment and adjust correctly.
Correctly is questionable as such but if you use the weight of the shifter on its own etc to “lock up” the bearing adjustment then see where the split pin hole is. You can go a bit more if needed to line up the hole, this is where the everyday experience comes into it to make the call.
On a “good” axle you will have the choice of two holes, some axles have only one hole and that is a pain, you either go too tight, not good, or back it off and too loose, not good either.

You can remove a small amount off of the back of the wheel bearing nut by placing in a vice and filing down the contact surface on the nut a little bit, this will allow the nut to rotate further and align the holes properly.

You can do the bearing adjustment with the wheel fitted and check for play, another trick if you are a bit unsure of the adjustment procedure.

What you mentioned re using a pin punch on the AXLE is not advisable in my view.

We use this process called peening (going old school now) on some bearing cone fitments where you may find an bearing cone spinning in the drum slightly, when severe you should replace the drum but if minor you can loctite the cone into the drum with a mid strength loctite, then at the edge of the bearing cone to drum use the pin punch to peen the surface.

What you are doing is gently expanding the metal in the drum which will lock in the bearing cone.

When you replaced your bearings I hope you kept the old cones, cut a slot in them with an angle grinder and used them as a sacrificial surface when pressing in tapping in the new cones, then keep them in the toolbox. The idea of the slot is that the cone will compress as you tap into the drum yet will be easily removed after the fitment of the new cone.

Best thing Harry on your next trip away come down through Burra SA or around those regions and I’ll take you through a service and give some pointers along the way.

Check out my Facebook page at Elite Mobile Caravan Service as well as from time to time there will be service tips on there as well.

Cheers Pete

Offline Jim and Lyn

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2019, 06:14:43 PM »
Gday Peter,
That's great information about the seals and next service I'll be swapping back to the good stuff!
Cheers
Jim
Jim & Lyn
LC100, 1HDFTE and 2005 Tvan

Offline Pete930

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2019, 07:57:58 PM »
All good Jim, I’m happy to share my point of view and hopefully put a bit more of an experienced insight into it more so  than follow a marketing idea, or a concept with no theory behind it, if you know what I mean.

I certainly don’t have all the answers but feel ok with the reasoning behind what I do, those that disagree that’s fine, do what you want to do, but for me the aforementioned ideas work for me  each and every day.

Regards Pete


Offline Graham Norfolk

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2019, 08:32:18 AM »
Sorry for rejoining this thread late but have been touring this great brown land. I used the normal bearing seals for the first 80 thousand kms we used our T-van and replaced three axles in that time at $1500+ each from Track an expensive breakdown. For the next 110 thousand kms I've used marine seals and 'touch wood' have had no trouble. I have not noticed any grease leaking on to the brakes in that time.
Cheers

Offline Trex

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2019, 11:14:35 AM »
Graham, can you share the part numbers for the marine seals and where you got them ? It's on my maintenance list to repack the bearings so may as well replace seals while I'm there.
Landcruiser 100 (HDJ100) towing 2005 TVAN Murranji

Offline Pete930

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2019, 06:25:48 PM »
You won’t notice grease leaking from a standard seal either when replaced at the regular service intervals, I’m not sure why folk want to save a few dollars by not replacing them.

Also as previously stated I don’t know why folk want to use marine seals when the pure application of how they work is not warranted for an off road camper trailer.

If you read the above posts it will all be explained.

Pete

Offline Graham Norfolk

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2019, 08:37:32 AM »
Trex I could not find a part no. on the seals, I just ask for marine seals to suit the L68149/10 bearings. It is a two piece seal with a rubber outer and steel inner. They were recommended to me by a T-van owner who is very passionate about T-van wheels and suspension. 

Offline Phil G

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2019, 10:24:32 PM »
Gday Graham,
I've been away in the Gammon Ranges for a few weeks so didn't pick up on this thread.  Had a great time up there, and sounds like you have been away a lot too.
I remember your predicament with bearings some years ago.  But I have never used marine seals and would not recommend them as Pete930 has explained. I service a number of mate's Tvans and caravans and if I find marine seals, I put a new standard seal back in.  I found the old thread. I recommended you fit Timkin Bearings but it was "Pete and Lez" who recommended the Marine Seals. http://www.tracktrailerforums.com/index.php?topic=1385.msg12607

I'm gonna take credit for your good run with bearings because you're now running Timkin  :-)  haha

Regarding the earlier comparison with landcruiser bearings, its not a fair comparison.  The weights carried by parallel axles and Landcruiser axles are not a lot different but the Landcruiser Bearings are twice as big because they need to have a drive shaft running through the middle - so they are a lot bigger than they need to be to carry the weight.  Toyota currently service the rigid axle bearings on 70series every 20,000k.

Regarding adjustment, if I can't get it optimal with the two split pin positions,  I put a new washer in, or shave the washer rather than shave the nut,  but usually get away with backing it off until I sense play (with wheel back on) then nip it up to the next split pin slot.  Once on the old Tvan that saw a lot of use, there was vertical play (I presume due to wear on the stub axle)  and I've peened the axle a little to help the bearing cone have a snug fit.

I also like to check for bearing play after 1000km or so after replacing bearings.

Cheers
Phil
Phil
2003 Tvan
2019 Landcruiser VDJ78 Troopcarrier

Offline Graham Norfolk

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Re: Tvan bearings
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2019, 08:44:06 AM »
Thanks for that Phil and I apolligise for attributing the seals to you and recommending them, it was desperate times and I was willing to try anything. I guess next time I service the bearings I will go back to the original seals. But yes thanks to your advice the wheels have been trouble free.

We are currently in Mataranka washing the Gibson desert dust off.

Cheers