Author Topic: Wheel bearing torque  (Read 427 times)

Offline Frankrhona

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Wheel bearing torque
« on: December 31, 2020, 03:34:31 PM »
Today I decided it was time to fit new wheel bearings and seals to the chariot, in preparation for more travel in 2021!
Down to the local auto shop and back with 4x Koyo L68149/10 bearings and 2x 28600 seals and a pot of Penrite wheel bearing grease I'm ready to go.
But, first let me check: What is the torque setting for the spindle nut?

Tvan owners manual: "Please check at least every 5,000km for excessive end play.....by moving the tyre from side to side and feeling for movement. .... Please familiarise yourself with the "feel" of the correct end play and procedure to adjust...."
OK, not very definitive but a bit of a "clonk" is permissible.

Alko Electric Brakes Book: "Turn the hub slowly to seat the bearings while tightening the slotted nut until firm. Loosen the slotted nut and then re-tighten by hand (not with a wrench) to a “finger-tight” condition to align the first notch with the hole in the shaft and insert the split pin."
OK, tighten up with spanner, back it off and retighten by hand and insert the pin. Sweet, but it still had a bit of a "clonk".

Now, going back two and a bit years at rego time I had a bit of a "clonk". The mechanic refused to pass it without further tightening. So, on with the spanner and 1/6th of a turn tighter no "clonk" and a rego check pass. And that is the way it has been for about 10,000km with no adverse effects.

So, here is my dilemma: "Clonk" or "no clonk"? Now if I was doing the Patrol front hubs it is a definite "no clonk". What about the Tvan? Your opinion would be appreciated.
Cheers Andrew
Andrew & Clare
2005 ZD30 Patrol
2006 Canning Tvan

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2020, 07:14:35 PM »
Tapered bearings need a little preloaded, movement is not good.
I nip up while rotator drum, back off and retighten using only the weight of the spanner/breaker bar/shifter. If doing by finger per above method I’d tighten to the next available hole for the split pin.
Cheers Kyle
Kyle & Coral.
Propulsion unit-  Land Rover Defender.
Accommodation- '06 Canning Tvan.

Offline Frankrhona

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2021, 02:26:25 PM »
Kyle thank you, I agree. The job is now complete, finger tight plus a smidge and no "clonk".
Interesting to find when I did the job the stub axle has two holes at 90 deg. So I could tighten in 1/12 of a turn increments, 6 thou", (0.15mm) on the 1" x 14tpi unf nut.
However, I must remember to check them on the next run.

If you are contemplating doing the same job I recommend replacing the cotter pins 5mm x 40mm at the same time.
And, if you are a backyard mechanic like me and tap your bearing cones in, cut a slot in an old cone with an angle grinder and use that to push the bearing cones in. Worked well for me and easy to pull out.
Cheers, Andrew
Andrew & Clare
2005 ZD30 Patrol
2006 Canning Tvan

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2021, 02:47:29 PM »
Andrew I carry a cut cone in the spare box with spare bearing so they can be changed track side, just tap gently so the new outer cone doesn’t “bounce” off it’s seating surface. I agree on the new pins too.
Kyle & Coral.
Propulsion unit-  Land Rover Defender.
Accommodation- '06 Canning Tvan.

Offline Pete930

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2021, 09:20:52 AM »
With any wheel bearings on Tvans, caravans etc, tighten the nut till no play, the, maybe an 1/8 turn more so you are actually putting a preload on the bearing.

From there rotate the brake drum and watch what happens to the grease around the outer bearing, it gets expelled from the bearing as it is excess to the bearings needs. Wipe off grease, rotate drum and repeat until grease stops coming out. May a take a minute or so, then bearing is ready for final adjustment.

To adjust as others have stated just use the weight of the tool, then look for the closest adjusting hole. If it is close but does not aligned correctly you can remove the nut, place in a vice and file a bees dick off of the back of the nut, this reduction in thickness will allow the nut to rotate to the closest hole and you will have perfect adjustment.

Some folk file off the washer, but try that and see what a pain it is.

To have minor play is better than having no play, try it, tighten up or put a preload on the bearing, back off the nut and listen, you can hear a slight ping as the tension is released from the bearing, now imagine that firmness then add 60 degrees of temperature, it will get tighter as things expand.

You’ll be ok with what you have done above, I just like things spot in with what I do for my customers is all.

Pete
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 08:35:10 AM by Pete930 »

Offline Harry Lissimore

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2021, 12:34:57 PM »
Thanks to all for the info.  Some good information there.  I'm no expert but I do preload the bearings, turn hub about a dozen revolutions, then back off and use the weight of the spanner, then insert the new split pin. I then check for play in the wheel and it varies between a very slight clunk to no clunk at all.  One wheel is always perfect, the other wheel has a very slight clunk.  I do worry about tolerances that may decrease as the bearing heats up, so to me it's really important that the brakes are adjusted well to keep the temperature as low as possible.  I like my hubs to be running at less than 50 degrees centigrade, preferably 40.

Here's a little story about how loose the bearings can get.  I had just had the Topaz serviced, done a few short camping trips to ensure all was well, then did a big trip from Brisbane heading north across the Buchannan Highway to  Kununurra, across the Gibb doing a couple of side trips and had a flat tyre on the way into Broome.  Changed the tyre and just thought I'd check the tyre for wobble while still jacked up.  To my extreme surprise, there was a hell of a lot of wobble.  I checked the castle nut and I had to turn it one complete revolution to get it to finger tightness.  It appears that it the bearing may not have been sufficiently tight at the service, so I had done many thousands of Km on a lot of corrugated dirt roads and the bearings held OK.  In Broome, got another service (Thanks Cam at the Trailer Repair place) and no damage to hub or bearings. Just goes to show that we worry about a little bit of play in a bearing.....they're more robust than that, however I would NEVER overtighten them.
Formerly 2002 TVAN, now a 2015 Topaz Savannah and 2014 Isuzu MU-X LST. Now towing with a 2019 Toyota LC200 GXL.

Offline Pete930

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2021, 08:36:39 AM »
As usual Harry a clear and concise report on your experiences, well done.

Yes the “loose” bearing could be as a result from a lot of things, bearing bedding in, not had the excess grease expelled from it prior to final adjustment or just basically incorrectly adjusted.

As you have noted no issue with it at the end of the day once correctly adjusted, I’ve rarely seen bearings damaged by being loose on the adjustment, however from being done too tight, yep that can cause damage, usually from overheating.

When you come through Burra mid north SA next time, I’ll give you the crash course of adjusting them correctly and also explain why it gets done the way it gets done.

The understanding of why you do things is important, unlike doing things parrot fashion as such.

Pete.

Offline Harry Lissimore

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2021, 05:02:07 PM »
Thanks Pete!  I'll be at the Barossa Wine festival in around March April if that is close to you.

I must point out that the loose bearing that I had in Broome was not my doing.  I was lazy so I let the caravan place in Brisbane do the service before the journey.

As for brakes, can you enlighten me on brake adjustment?  I usually adjust them till they're on then wind them back 5 clicks, then back another 1 or two just to be sure.  I don't like the idea of having the hub temperatures increase and then have to adjust the brakes  on the run.

Harry
Formerly 2002 TVAN, now a 2015 Topaz Savannah and 2014 Isuzu MU-X LST. Now towing with a 2019 Toyota LC200 GXL.

Offline Pete930

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2021, 09:13:59 AM »
Hey Harry, yes we can catch up for sure, you’ll be about 80kms from home so easy to arrange.

As far as brake adjustment goes wind the adjuster up until the wheel is locked, then progressively wind back. The number of actual clicks back I don’t go by simply as the adjusting tool can slip without turning the adjuster, you hence  have adjusted nothing but count the click, if that makes sense.

It’s definitely a feel and listen approach, you back off the adjuster till the wheel spins freely with no drag from the brake linings, you can hear drag from the brake magnet on the inside of the drum as the off road style of magnet do not use a retaining clip to secure the magnet, they are allowed to “float” on the leg of the brake actuator.

To test how accurate each side has been adjusted too, you can position the valve core to say the 12 o’clock position, then have someone operate the brake controller so the wheel will lock (whatever you need to do on your particular controller) then rotate the wheel to the front of the van until it locks.

Ensure both sides are equally adjusted usuig this method and you should be right, the wheel may rotate say to the 1 o’clock position then lock up. Get both sides the same and you won’t have an issue.

Hope that makes sense or I can show you when you come over, steer you too some nice wineries and places to eat also.

Pete

Offline Harry Lissimore

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2021, 08:54:15 AM »
Hi Pete,

Great information on adjusting the brakes evenly.  Never thought of measuring the the wheel travel!  I have a '77 Series 3 LandRover which has a similar brake adjustment (but uses a spanner) and I always adjusted them by ear.  However with the Topaz, you always hear some sort of scraping when you turn the wheel, whether it be the linings or the magnet so it's difficult to do it that way.  That's why I use the 5 notches method.  I think that's what Track recommend.  I have the special tool, and I shine a light onto the adjuster so I can fairly accurately see whether the adjuster has moved or not.

So would you say that the 1 O'clock position would be the normal travel to aim for  when both brakes are adjusted properly?

I'll send you the details of when we will be at the Barossa Vintage Wine Festival closer to the time.  You never know, it might be cancelled.  We'll be staying at Nuriootpa this time.

H

Formerly 2002 TVAN, now a 2015 Topaz Savannah and 2014 Isuzu MU-X LST. Now towing with a 2019 Toyota LC200 GXL.

Offline Pete930

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Re: Wheel bearing torque
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2021, 05:37:22 PM »
Hey fella, yes you will always hear a bit of “scrapping” as such. As stated previously the off road style of magnet does not have a clip on the end of the actuator arm that it sits on, unlike the on road style of magnet which does.

The noise you will generally hear if the brake line adjustment is fine and there is no accumulation of dirt, lining material in between the drum and the linings is the magnet just gently touching the side surface of the drum.

The idea or concept of checking the degrees of rotation before lock up as I call it is to ensure that both sides are as even as they can be. I have a special box made up that allows me to lock brakes, measure current draw etc all at the same time. You can probably see it in my Facebook page at Elite Mobile Caravan Service. It features from time to time.

Now the 1 o’clock position is fine for vans etc that would only ever see bitumen use only, for  Tvan, Topaz and anything else that does get used off road, you could easily allow a bit more before the wheel locks up.

Reason for this is if you start with a slightly firm adjustment once you get dirt ingress,  dust etc in the drum and you will off road, then this can go between the lining and the drum. In effect this will then give you same effect as an over adjusted brake.

This is where experience, asking the right questions of the customer, looking at their intended use etc all culminates in  making the right adjustment to suit.
Some will say just aim for the same end result all the time, when considering how crap handbrakes are on caravans etc the efficiency of other areas comes into consideration as well.

Hope that all makes sense.

Yes Nurri about 100kms from home, which in country talk is just down the road. Been to Adelaide today for a few things 300km round trip, then back down tomorrow for an engagement party.......whooo hooo !!

So yes happy to have a beer,wine, whisky with ya and catch up !!