Finding the sweet spot with Lithium?

[mons2travel]

It appears that our AGM batteries are at  / near the end of their useful life (7 years), and considering Lithium replacement. Moving to Lithium is an expensive exercise, including the replacement of the DCDC charger and the 240 V charger. There is a huge difference in the prices for 100 Ah Lithium batteries, and while I suspect that not all will drop into the battery box, prices I have found range from $800 to well above $2000 for one battery .... Does anyone have useful observations to share? Any up to date recommendations or experiences for a reasonable solution would be appreciated.

[leachy_9]

My occupation and interests leads me to being asked this question regularly. While I have high end (expensive) LifePo4 batteries installed, my advice to most is that Deep Cycle Systems https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/ is a good combination of quality, price and supplier support.

[Gumb]

I've been happy with my 2 105AH Fullriver batteries which hardly ever get below 80%. If there's sunshine around, with a set of portable panels, they are at 100% by sunset every day when camped or at 100% if we are travelling by getting charge from the car. While I think lithium are good and certainly getting better and cheaper, the cost to upgrade just deosn't seem to be worthwhile.

[mons2travel]

My occupation and interests leads me to being asked this question regularly. While I have high end (expensive) LifePo4 batteries installed, my advice to most is that Deep Cycle Systems https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/ is a good combination of quality, price and supplier support.

Thanks Leachy..I'll checked their website.  For intersts sake, what are your high end batteries?

[mons2travel]

I've been happy with my 2 105AH Fullriver batteries which hardly ever get below 80%. If there's sunshine around, with a set of portable panels, they are at 100% by sunset every day when camped or at 100% if we are travelling by getting charge from the car. While I think lithium are good and certainly getting better and cheaper, the cost to upgrade just deosn't seem to be worthwhile.

Thanks Gumb... I think ours are past it. Down to 86% in two days with no load. Although I was advised to keep them on the 7 stage mains charger when in storage, I wonder if that was not the best advice, as others have suggested here. Then again, they are nearly 7 years old?

[Gumb]

Mine are just over 4 years old and have never been left on 240v charge while the van sits in the garage. They don't get any sun either so I just plug the van in to 240v power every 2-3 months. Even then, it doesn't take long to charge them so they aren't down very far. The Victron syay 99.9% but i understand that it doesn't measure the small trickle loss when it's not active.

[leachy_9]

Thanks Leachy..I'll checked their website.  For intersts sake, what are your high end batteries?

My batteries are Safiery. These guys really are at the leading edge of mobile power systems but thier gear comes at a premium price.

[robstevens]

Fusion batteries 100Ah LiPO4 . Seems to be good brand and value.

[Phil G]

" I was advised to keep them on the 7 stage mains charger when in storage"

That is bad advice for a Lithium battery.  Should be stored at around 60-80% and no charging.  I find the easiest way is to let them run down on the last day and have fitted a kill switch for storage.

[mons2travel]

Thanks Phil, thats the same advice as with lithium camera batteries .... ie dont store them long term fully charged.
The advice I was given about full time charging was for the current AGM batteries in the TVan.
Cheers,

[Ropetangler]

For what it is worth I plan "to roll my own", by importing raw cells from China as well as a suitable BMS, - battery management system, when we get back home from a mainland trip toward the end of the year.  There are quite a few YouTube accounts of battery building, Will Prowse in America and Andy, an eccentric German Australian living on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland are both worth a look. Both men are quite possibly on the spectrum, but both appear very knowledgable on all matters solar. A link to Andy's Off Grid Garage will get you started if you are interested in looking into DIY Lithium. https://off-grid-garage.com/batteries/
Rob.

[Ray]

I have dipped my toe in lithium with the Renogy 100ah battery, so far working well, far quicker charge than the old gel battery and easy to monitor with the $40 bluetooth module, about $630 each, when the Pajero aux Optima dies (currently 7 yo) I will buy another Renogy.

Ray

[outbacktrev]

We have removed our 2 x 105ah fullriver AGMs and installed 2 x itechworld 120x lithium batteries. $1798 to the door.
Replaced the projecta 25a charger with a Victron 30a lithium compatible charger with bluetooth       $278 to the door
Had a REDARC BCDC 1240D charger already and only had to reconfigure for lithium profile              $0
Original Victron BMV-700 added blue tooth module and reconfigured for lithium                               $60
Sold Projecta charger and display                                                                                                -$200
                                                                                                                                  Total cost  $1936
Replacement cost of Fullriver 105ah batteries x 2 would be around $1000

Weight saving around 50kg, double the battery capacity and half the charging time.

Life expectancy of Lithium approx 10+ yrs.

Just what we have done and are VERY happy with.

Cheers,
           Trevor

[Ropetangler]

very interesting Ray and Trevor. I was planning on getting 8 x 305 Ah lithium cells from a Chinese source when we return to Tasmania later in the year. I have just heard that the 305Ah cells are not available at the moment, but I believe that 280Ah cells are available. Online chat suggests that about three months is a common shipping time so it may well be early next year before I get my cells, and costs are rising all the time so not sure what the costs will be then, but recent landed costs have been in the region of AU$130-150 ea and of course a BMS is also required, possibly another $250 Australian. Both your batteries have cost less than I would have thought, so I will have to look again closer to hitting the button, I may go with a ready built option if the cost curves move much closer together.
As a matter of interest, the 8 305Ah cells will fit in the available space without much modification, mainly battery hold down arrangements and final wiring upgrading. Cheers,
Rob.

[robstevens]

We have removed our 2 x 105ah fullriver AGMs and installed 2 x itechworld 120x lithium batteries. $1798 to the door.
Replaced the projecta 25a charger with a Victron 30a lithium compatible charger with bluetooth       $278 to the door
Had a REDARC BCDC 1240D charger already and only had to reconfigure for lithium profile              $0
Original Victron BMV-700 added blue tooth module and reconfigured for lithium                               $60
Sold Projecta charger and display                                                                                                -$200
                                                                                                                                  Total cost  $1936
Replacement cost of Fullriver 105ah batteries x 2 would be around $1000

Weight saving around 50kg, double the battery capacity and half the charging time.

Life expectancy of Lithium approx 10+ yrs.

Just what we have done and are VERY happy with.

Cheers,
           Trevor

This is EXACTLY what I have now set up in my Tvan too. Nice one